Wednesday, March 10, 2010
Preachers and Quotes
When ABA preachers preach (especially when other ABA preachers are present, in seminary and in some type of associational meeting) they often quote from a "famous Preacher" (not ABA). The quote will almost always include a reference to universal church. IMO, a sermon may be great the rest of the way, but sours on me by a universal church quote. Watch for it in seminary chapel services, revival services, etc. Note: This post was the week before the pastor and missionary conference. Some I consider excellent preachers have been caught in this trap. Why would anyone defend using universal church heresy quotes in a MB sermon? Why have others not realized it or do not talk about it? When MB are fed a steady diet of universal church quotes, some will pick up the lingo even if they profess not to believe universal church. Example are: the Church; the rapture of the church; the American church; the Western church. When a preacher quotes someone, he is tarred by their beliefs. Who do MB quote? Mathew Henry, who couldn't find a NT church with a Bible, both hand and a flashlight. Many other names could be given. When a preacher uses a universal church quote, it doesn't make him look better in eyes of sound, solid MB.
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Tried to delete the above comment, but it won't let me. :-) Anyway, just wanted to say that I haven't often heard ABA preachers quote from men. The only names I specifically remember being quoted are historical secular references and references to people like Brother C. N. Glover, Brother L.L. Clover, Brothers Roy and Cloy Chapman, and Brother Don McCormick.
ReplyDeleteWe are taught in homiletcis class, after all, to make our introduction about the text. I suppose this is why I rarely (if ever) use any quotes of men in a sermon. I guess the people I quote most are Perschebacher (for his Greek Lexicon) and Noah Webster.
But then again, I almost never reference commentaries.
Back to the subject matter at hand, I don't know that I've ever heard someone else quote a universal church person, much less one of their universal church quotes. I also know a lot of ABA brethren who don't read many books at all.
JamesCharles,
ReplyDeleteWould you please explain how you come to the conclusion that,
"Matthew 18:17 - And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."
refers to "the church" in an institutional sense?
Because a man cannot tell the entire family of God (a universal church idea) anything. It must then be referring to all individual churches.
ReplyDeleteMy point about quotes with refernces to universal church is some evidently do not hear it or do not recognize universal church heresy terminology. If one is not listening to the quotes and waiting for the sermon, I get that. But if one is listening and does not get the universal church references, then there is a real problem. When we quote, we must be very sure it is not a statement that espouses heresy.
ReplyDeleteIs it wrong to use a meaningful and true quote about life in general or Christian living from someone who is "off" on their doctrine?
ReplyDeleteI've read quotes in books or on the internet before which sound great and are applicable, but I'm not familiar with the person attributed to the quote.
I don't have a problem with preachers saying "in the church" or "the church of today" if it is used as the Bible does (institutional sense).
But you are right....quoting modern-day "popular" preachers could be a dangerous thing.
Agreed Brother Arch.
ReplyDeleteIf I understand the point of this post, there are two parts: (1) quoting something that is incorrect in belief, and (2) quoting someone who is incorrect is his beliefs. Is that a correct understanding?
ReplyDeleteThe first part -- quoting something you don't believe, like universal church dogma --I don't understand why anyone would consciously do. Maybe they are not consciously aware that it promotes that, or maybe they secretly believe it?
I hardly ever give quotes in my preaching. I don't plan ahead to quote something or someone, so if I do it would be something stored in my memory banks that I thought of while preaching. Most likely it will be a hymn, and because it is related to/illustrative of something I'm saying. But even quoting hymns would run afoul of the second part of your rule as I understand it, because some of them were written by universal church men of some sort. But if this is so, then maybe we shouldn't sing them either.
I don't agree that when a preacher quotes someone, he is automatically tarred by his beliefs. Who is tarred by the incorrect parts of John Newton's theology when he correctly agrees "Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me"? Nevertheless, it is good to use discretion when quoting others. For example, I probably wouldn't quote in a positive way something Adolph Hitler said even if he said it the best it has ever been said.
What about this scriptural example? When Paul the apostle preached on Mars Hill, he quoted "one of your own poets" -- one whose overall theology was surely wrong -- not even Christian. But the quote he pointed out to them was in agreement with the truth. Like Paul, we should put more emphasis on the truth of the quote -- or the lack thereof -- than the frail man who said it. And we need to look carefully at the purpose of the quote -- is it to show off the person who said it, or the point of what he said?
I am glad for the input. I wasn't trying to make a rule - I just wanted to offer a caution if some had not considered it. I don't think anyone would want to be considered to be a believer in a heresy just because they quoted an unscriptural saying. I rarely ever quote anything except hymns.
ReplyDeletePerhaps a way to bypass all of this is to simply offer the advice that we all seem to follow (and for some good reason I might add) - Don't quote people in your sermons.
ReplyDeleteToo much stock also I believe is put in Billy Graham. He has a minister of any flavor that you want stand at the front during his invitations. I could also go into a lot of things that he has actually said in print, but I heard him myself about 15 years ago on television with my own ears (not gossip) say "repentance, faith, and obedience" for salvation. And he claims to be Southern Baptist.
ReplyDeleteI'm not fan of Mr. Graham, his son, or their "ministries". I did, however, have a boss that would read aloud his newspaper articles every day. I don't know which things he has taught, but I do know that he has taught salvation by grace through faith at times in his ministry also. I'm not defending him, just saying that one should be fair.
ReplyDeleteIf one comes to know Christ as ones savior the way the bible says, that is obedience.
ReplyDeleteBro. Barry,
ReplyDeleteIf you make obedience a part of salvation, you have injected works into it. I'm seriously considering a post on Lordship salvation. Let me make it clear: I am not denying the Lordship of Christ over the believer.