Tuesday, July 21, 2009
Social Gospel Trend in Expenditures
I recently saw a church sign (central Ar, a SBC) that said, "We support community athletics." The biblical ethics of church expenditures out of the general fund includes the expenses of the church, the support of the pastor, the support of a widow indeed according to biblical qualifications, missions, expenses of messengers, Christian education and general benevolence (for those of like faith and order). When a congregation supports food drives, secular education, medical needs, or financial support for needy in the community out of the general fund, she begins to place emphasis on the social gospel - address the physical needs of the community. The benevolent offering for the saints of Judea (like faith and order) was a special offering - not out of the general fund (Paul reminded the church at Corinth not to wait to take up one when he came). A special love offering for church members that need financial help in extreme situations will usually be more than an amount taken from the general fund by passing a motion. It will promote the spirit of giving by those members that participate. The benevolent offering was not part of the individual member's church offering, it was extra. In these tough financial times, a church could very well get in financial difficulty in the general fund by doing what appears to be a good thing rather than leaving it to a love offering. Some would even use the examlpe of Jesus feeding the 5000 to prove that the church Jesus built did so out of the general fund, even though Jesus multiplied the lunch of a young boy. If true churches aren't careful, we will get caught up in social gospel ideas of funding phsycial things out of the general fund and will not give to missions, etc. as we should.
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John 13:29 shows it is not an idea uncommon to God's people. This verse does not show right or wrong, but it does show God's church does think in this fashion.
ReplyDeleteCould you please give me a definition of the term "social gospel"?
ReplyDeleteTo me the social gospel is the heresy that teaches as long as you are a good person you will be accepted by God into Heaven.
Another term that needs defining is "ministry" which simply means meeting needs.
If this Church is meeting a need in thier community and is being a Christian influence in the lives of thier community how can this be wrong?
Who is to say that this Church isn't MORE mission minded than most? They are in fact reaching out into thier Jerusalem.
John 13:29 - they thought it wrongly. judas went to betray Jesus andthey were just guessing what they thought he might be doing, but they were guessing WRONG.
ReplyDeleteIMO the social gospel is preaching for social change instead of preaching the true gospel of Christ. our work if is the GC - not education, medical needs, athletics or feeding the hungry. Those are good things for individuals after they have put in their tithe, but they are NOT what the Lord's work should be about.
ReplyDeleteI simply said that God's people DO think this way. This verse proves it. Matthew 26:9 also shows they thought it here. Neither of these explain the morality of it. The disciples were wrong on both accounts as to what SHOULD have happened or what was going to happen, but I'm simply saying neither passage teaches the morality of the act.
ReplyDeleteWhat the passages DO teach us for sure is that Jesus' church had the mindset of giving to the poor. In both cases, and who knows how many more, the church's first thought was giving to the poor.
If the Matthew passage teaches us anything about the morality of it (and I'm not saying it does), it would suggest that the disciples could later give to the poor, after they no longer had the Son of Man with them.
Also, Jesus told a man to sell all he had and give to the poor (instead of selling all he had and giving to the church like in Acts.)
Another thing... where are "separate funds" in the Bible? Aren't they really all in one account any way? And what if the church decides to set aside a certain percentage each month out of the total general fund and give out hot plates while witnessing to each individual to whom they give a plate? Is SHOWING the love of Jesus while TELLING the love of Jesus a "social gospel"? (James 2).
Finally, concerning giving missions, when a church has no finances, God does not expect her to give to missions. This is VERY emphatically stated in 2 Corinthians 8:11-15, where we are told to give when we have it (thus helping those who have not), and later, when we don't have it, they will give to us. This gives the equality the scriptures talk about, and it keeps any church from being burdened as these scriptures talk about. If we give when we don't have it, we are both burdened, and there is an unequality, and we are giving not according to what we have, but rather what we have not. These scriptures show God does not expect this.
By the way, if someone replies to this comment, please read it ALL very carefully, and reply to all of it, not just a single phrase or sentence. Thank you.
John 13:29 - For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
ReplyDeleteArch Bishop: "...they were just guessing what they thought he might be doing, but they were guessing WRONG."
They were guessing wrongly about what Jesus meant. They could not or did not foresee the evil intent of Judas. But that they could assume that Jesus meant he should give something to the poor implies that under Jesus' administration of "the bag" (their treasury), there was no wrong seen in giving from what they had to the poor.
Surely the "Supporting Athletics" sign meant in spirit and NOT financially??
ReplyDeleteI agree to the post up until the part about "general benevolence (for those of like faith and order)."
I'm not sure how to reconcile that with all of the verses about helping the poor or I Jn 3:17,18 "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion, how dwelleth the love of God in him? ..let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth."
It seems a church can help AND minister to someone, if they choose, without it being the social gospel.
Example: A family's house burns in the community where your church is located. The family doesn't even attend anywhere. Three choices would be:
1)ignore them because they are not ABA (of like faith and order)
2)take up a love offering (benevolent)
3)give them something from the general fund (of course if there is dissension, go with #2)
The only unacceptable option to me is #1.
"Extra offering" is probably best, but if a church in harmony decides to help someone out of the general fund, why would I go out my way to criticize it?
Galatians 6:10, "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."
ReplyDeleteI'll agree that individuals should give thier tithes and offerings to the Church and that Churches should look to thier own first for those that need help...according to this verse. The reason is why should we give them to the Church. Obviously, b/c God wants all the offerings brought into His storehouse...the Church. There is another reason...the AUTHORITY of His Lordship over the Church and the Churches ACCOUNTABILITY to Him about what is done with these funds.
Is it wrong to help out a family in the community whose house has burned down with Church funds? Is it wrong for the Church to vote to buy several canned goods and a turkey for a needy family in the community at Thanksgiving? Is it wrong for a Church to contact the local school district to identify a poor family in the community that could have Christmas bought for them?
All of these things are GREAT things to do and they don't preach a social gospel...they loudly proclaim the love of Christ to our community. That is community change and that is WHY we are placed in our communities to glorify Christ in our communities.
It seems that when the Church does things She should ask the question...Would Jesus support this? I think Jesus would have enjoyed watching a kids baseball game and the parents probably would have behaved themselves much better knowing that Jesus was there.
If the Church sponsored or supported a youth athletic league I would be more apt to put my kids in that league than in one that encourages games and practices on wednesdays and sundays.
Therfe is nothing wrong with this and it has NOTHING to do with a social gospel as you define it but it has everything to do with a Church being a leader in Her community which is what the Lord has always desired of His Churches...in older times (more landmark times than now) the Church and the Pastor was the voice of morality and people respected the Church (consider Little House on the Prairie, Andy Griffith and Footloose for an example of this) Just kidding about footloose.
I applaud this Church for being that leader in Her community.
as i was typing...bro. neal was typing...sorry for the similarity...i wasn't copying.
ReplyDeleteYeah sure BigJ...
ReplyDeleteBro. AB, I see your point and a church can go too far in supporting physical things.
"We can't help everyone," is a common quote.
But the fact that we can't help everyone doesn't mean that we shouldn't help someone, in my opinion.
Good post. Good subject.
I have a slightly different take on situations that may occur. When hurracane Rita hit the Gulf Coast of east Tex. We had apx. 25000 evacuees hit Center Tex. We all had to scrambel to take care of them. The ordeal lasted 16 days. with all the help we could get our Church still lost a lot monitarily, but We were not sorry that We did take those folks in. there was 125 that We helped. An intresting side note. the Day we started takring people in the first wes a white Family. just a little later We took in a black Family, the white man came and asked me if the blacks were staying, I replyed yes. He took his Family back to the road very quickly. There is just no explaneing some folks.
ReplyDeleteI apologize if this comes across badly. But you can find plenty of families in the Lords churches, (not just ABA) but churches of like faith and practice, whether ABA or not.
ReplyDeleteI will tell you that much of my comment is probably from the flesh, and your prayers are desired.
Right now, here in Utah, my family is less than a month from being foodless and moneyless. I am not sure how we will make a house payment and we cannot buy food if we do. Right now, it looks as though I may have to send my wife and kids to california if God does not intervene so that they can stay with family. We do not have TV so we can not cut cost by shutting it off, I have shut of A/C even though it is 110 degrees every day, we are eating once a day, kids get a few snacks along with it, we are shutting off the phone.
I have had more than a couple churches say they cannot take on more missions because much of the mission funds go to serving food to "needy" people in parks etc. Or they believe that home missionaries should get a job and that more support should go to foreign missions. Yet, a baptist cannot get a job in Utah.
Current income is $600/month, my house payment is almost $1400/month, my family is scared, we are selling on ebay, yard sales, and watching as God's are more interested in the social gospel than the Lords work.
This is a foreign work on US soil. We deal with demonic people, we have our mail tampered with, opened, lost, stolen if it has baptist on the envelope, we have our house egged, windows shot out, tire slashed last week, threatening phone calls, etc.
Sorry about that. I is posted as a prayer request.
I guess what i wonder about most is how you use the Bible to define what is out of the "General Fund" and what is "Special Offering" and what is "Love Offering".
ReplyDeleteI agree that all the things listed are to be supported, but I hardly think that supporting a food drive, etc... is wrong. Jesus healed and fed, so did the apostles. It needs to be done with strong emphasis on sharing the gospel, but I don't see anything wrong with it.
So is it that we truly care about their souls, or are we taking advantage of the misfortune of others for possibly our own benefit?
ReplyDeleteWhy were we not showing our love for these people and their souls before the house burned down?
It almost seems like the attorney who is chasing ambulances to gain clients.
I am not opposed to helping others, we have done food baskets for needy families here in the past.
But the acts of love toward our fellow man seen at all times, good and bad and be part of what we do, each of us in our lives. And if that is the case the church would not need to do it as a whole and it would have more impact with those in need to see Gods people do it out of real love and not just part of a church "ministry".
Sometimes these things remind me of when you have a church full of people who have never led a person to the Lord, that still figures they are "participating" in the great commission because the church supports missions. They ease their burden for not doing things by voting for the church to do them instead. It is a lot easier to give money to a fund (especially if you dont even give yourself, but just claim you are part of it because the church is doing it) than it is to actually love your neighbor or witness to somebody.
Witnessing WHILE giving to someone is no more wrong than Jesus witnessing while healing people.
ReplyDeleteIt is no more taking advantage of people than preaching to the lost at a funeral.
It is an opportunity one can use for witnessing, as I'm sure we all use many opportunities for witnessing, such as an extra hour to knock on a door, an extra ten minutes at the grocery store, an extra five minutes at the gas pump, etc.
We are commanded both to GO and preach (Matthew 28:18-20), and to preach as we go (Matthew 10:7.)
Come On People!!!
ReplyDeleteHellooooo
ReplyDeleteis anybody out there???